1 00:00:26,830 --> 00:00:23,330 hello and welcome to the skeptic zone 2 00:00:29,590 --> 00:00:26,840 show number 42 for the 7th of August 3 00:00:32,510 --> 00:00:29,600 2009 Richard Saunders here with you 4 00:00:35,960 --> 00:00:32,520 getting over the dreaded skeptic flu 5 00:00:38,120 --> 00:00:35,970 once again on today's show first up is 6 00:00:40,729 --> 00:00:38,130 an interview with mythbuster and skeptic 7 00:00:43,760 --> 00:00:40,739 Adam Savage then we have an interview 8 00:00:46,160 --> 00:00:43,770 with Professor Leone Rennie from Western 9 00:00:49,640 --> 00:00:46,170 Australia and we hear her take on 10 00:00:51,670 --> 00:00:49,650 science communication and education but 11 00:00:54,829 --> 00:00:51,680 before we start a special announcement 12 00:00:57,470 --> 00:00:54,839 the Australian skeptics via our patron 13 00:01:00,380 --> 00:00:57,480 dick smith yesterday released an open 14 00:01:02,090 --> 00:01:00,390 letter in the australian newspaper you 15 00:01:06,590 --> 00:01:02,100 can see this letter by clicking the link 16 00:01:09,200 --> 00:01:06,600 at ww skeptic zone TV this letter aimed 17 00:01:11,450 --> 00:01:09,210 at parents of Australia outlines our 18 00:01:14,480 --> 00:01:11,460 concerns with the antics of the 19 00:01:16,160 --> 00:01:14,490 Australian vaccination Network a group 20 00:01:18,680 --> 00:01:16,170 well known to listeners of the skeptic 21 00:01:22,010 --> 00:01:18,690 zone we'll keep you updated as this 22 00:01:24,800 --> 00:01:22,020 story develops but for now sit back have 23 00:01:27,590 --> 00:01:24,810 a nice glass of champagne and enjoy this 24 00:01:42,539 --> 00:01:27,600 interview as Iran sir give talks with 25 00:01:46,960 --> 00:01:44,620 Adam Savage she's a modular 26 00:01:49,660 --> 00:01:46,970 special-effects expert and co-host of 27 00:01:51,279 --> 00:01:49,670 the Mythbusters television show Adam 28 00:01:53,260 --> 00:01:51,289 attended the amazing meeting seven in 29 00:01:54,910 --> 00:01:53,270 Las Vegas where I caught up with him to 30 00:02:01,660 --> 00:01:54,920 talk about his career being a skeptic 31 00:02:04,120 --> 00:02:01,670 and a lot more Adam welcome to the 32 00:02:05,649 --> 00:02:04,130 skeptic sound thank you can you tell us 33 00:02:07,600 --> 00:02:05,659 a little bit about what you have 34 00:02:13,030 --> 00:02:07,610 presented here at that time I'm giving a 35 00:02:15,300 --> 00:02:13,040 talk on failure basically in short you 36 00:02:17,259 --> 00:02:15,310 hear a lot of people who enjoy 37 00:02:20,410 --> 00:02:17,269 reasonable amount of success in a life 38 00:02:22,900 --> 00:02:20,420 talk about how important factor failing 39 00:02:27,070 --> 00:02:22,910 was in that success that they stumbled 40 00:02:29,020 --> 00:02:27,080 and along their way but most interviews 41 00:02:31,690 --> 00:02:29,030 with people who are successful look like 42 00:02:33,729 --> 00:02:31,700 their lives are a linear path just 43 00:02:36,430 --> 00:02:33,739 straight up towards the success that 44 00:02:37,780 --> 00:02:36,440 currently enjoy and I wanted to I was 45 00:02:39,940 --> 00:02:37,790 thinking about it i thought i've never 46 00:02:41,770 --> 00:02:39,950 heard someone tell really unvarnished 47 00:02:44,289 --> 00:02:41,780 stories about screwing something up from 48 00:02:46,840 --> 00:02:44,299 start to finish and so I came up with a 49 00:02:49,479 --> 00:02:46,850 couple of tales from my past of episodes 50 00:02:52,599 --> 00:02:49,489 where I completely screwed something up 51 00:02:59,860 --> 00:02:52,609 and I mean hurt people that I loved lost 52 00:03:01,270 --> 00:02:59,870 friends lost money and I also upon 53 00:03:02,650 --> 00:03:01,280 thinking about it realized that that is 54 00:03:05,080 --> 00:03:02,660 actually what makes a good skeptic 55 00:03:07,660 --> 00:03:05,090 somebody who has stumbled and recover 56 00:03:09,490 --> 00:03:07,670 who has had their mind changed or who 57 00:03:11,650 --> 00:03:09,500 realizes that they're fallible I mean 58 00:03:13,120 --> 00:03:11,660 dogmatism is nothing if not someone who 59 00:03:15,490 --> 00:03:13,130 believes that their opinion can't be 60 00:03:18,099 --> 00:03:15,500 shifted and skeptic is someone who 61 00:03:19,629 --> 00:03:18,109 realizes that it can when you gave that 62 00:03:22,270 --> 00:03:19,639 talk you to find yourself as a skeptic 63 00:03:26,910 --> 00:03:22,280 and I'm just wondering whether that 64 00:03:29,020 --> 00:03:26,920 really is your definition of yourself or 65 00:03:30,460 --> 00:03:29,030 do you even have a definition of 66 00:03:32,199 --> 00:03:30,470 yourself what do you find yourself in 67 00:03:36,250 --> 00:03:32,209 many different ways that's a good 68 00:03:37,660 --> 00:03:36,260 question i started doing Mythbusters 69 00:03:39,220 --> 00:03:37,670 because somebody offered me a job in 70 00:03:41,979 --> 00:03:39,230 television and it turned out to be a 71 00:03:44,410 --> 00:03:41,989 great job it turned out to be a job that 72 00:03:45,880 --> 00:03:44,420 i was uniquely suited for one that I 73 00:03:47,350 --> 00:03:45,890 loved and one that I have a sense of 74 00:03:48,670 --> 00:03:47,360 ownership over that I would have never 75 00:03:51,640 --> 00:03:48,680 foreseen when I started 76 00:03:53,800 --> 00:03:51,650 doing it and in the course of doing 77 00:03:55,270 --> 00:03:53,810 Mythbusters I we didn't set out to make 78 00:03:58,929 --> 00:03:55,280 a show that was about critical thinking 79 00:04:01,270 --> 00:03:58,939 or skepticism it just happened that way 80 00:04:05,220 --> 00:04:01,280 so no you're right that I don't define 81 00:04:09,309 --> 00:04:05,230 myself as a skeptic but I I do recognize 82 00:04:11,110 --> 00:04:09,319 all of the aspects of a true skeptic in 83 00:04:12,550 --> 00:04:11,120 my in my personality and in the work 84 00:04:15,999 --> 00:04:12,560 that I do and I think the movement 85 00:04:18,640 --> 00:04:16,009 itself is needs as much help as it can 86 00:04:20,680 --> 00:04:18,650 get absolutely people should be should 87 00:04:22,870 --> 00:04:20,690 be aware about critical thinking and 88 00:04:24,700 --> 00:04:22,880 being skeptical towards fantastic claims 89 00:04:27,999 --> 00:04:24,710 and you know I take that mission 90 00:04:30,010 --> 00:04:28,009 seriously and obviously that we you've 91 00:04:31,360 --> 00:04:30,020 been told many times in the past and 92 00:04:32,950 --> 00:04:31,370 you're obviously aware of it that the 93 00:04:35,320 --> 00:04:32,960 show is highly skeptical it shows how 94 00:04:37,260 --> 00:04:35,330 science works and critical thinking but 95 00:04:41,290 --> 00:04:37,270 as far as I'm aware there's never been 96 00:04:44,170 --> 00:04:41,300 any real discussion of that on the show 97 00:04:45,700 --> 00:04:44,180 it's it just happens is that correct oh 98 00:04:47,379 --> 00:04:45,710 yeah well I think that's actually quite 99 00:04:50,080 --> 00:04:47,389 scientific I mean we're not telling you 100 00:04:51,700 --> 00:04:50,090 that see I don't think you when you 101 00:04:53,680 --> 00:04:51,710 start to look at if you want to figure 102 00:04:54,969 --> 00:04:53,690 something out the method by figuring it 103 00:04:57,279 --> 00:04:54,979 out turns out to be the scientific 104 00:04:59,200 --> 00:04:57,289 method is the scientific method is just 105 00:05:02,830 --> 00:04:59,210 a name for a natural way that humans 106 00:05:04,839 --> 00:05:02,840 learn which is to build each of your 107 00:05:06,850 --> 00:05:04,849 conclusions upon data you've gathered in 108 00:05:08,850 --> 00:05:06,860 previous tests and and move forward 109 00:05:13,510 --> 00:05:08,860 towards illuminating what you don't know 110 00:05:14,860 --> 00:05:13,520 and you know Michael Shermer gave a talk 111 00:05:16,920 --> 00:05:14,870 this morning about the fact that you 112 00:05:19,659 --> 00:05:16,930 know every one of a particular political 113 00:05:21,129 --> 00:05:19,669 bent believes that their politics are 114 00:05:25,420 --> 00:05:21,139 the truth and that everyone else is 115 00:05:28,960 --> 00:05:25,430 politicized yes but I do believe that 116 00:05:31,120 --> 00:05:28,970 when it comes to science it's not a 117 00:05:33,969 --> 00:05:31,130 political stance to be scientific about 118 00:05:36,640 --> 00:05:33,979 something it's not a political stance to 119 00:05:38,290 --> 00:05:36,650 be skeptical so no I don't think it 120 00:05:40,149 --> 00:05:38,300 requires talking about any more than it 121 00:05:42,490 --> 00:05:40,159 requires us to talk about being atheists 122 00:05:44,640 --> 00:05:42,500 on that show I was talking I think I was 123 00:05:46,689 --> 00:05:44,650 thinking more about formalizing the 124 00:05:49,210 --> 00:05:46,699 notion of critical thinking and 125 00:05:51,490 --> 00:05:49,220 explaining about controls and maybe I'll 126 00:05:54,100 --> 00:05:51,500 ask her a more specific question have 127 00:05:57,380 --> 00:05:54,110 you thought about doing perhaps a show 128 00:05:59,450 --> 00:05:57,390 or videos accompanying videos that 129 00:06:01,190 --> 00:05:59,460 would actually discuss the scientific 130 00:06:02,780 --> 00:06:01,200 method be more educational perhaps even 131 00:06:05,690 --> 00:06:02,790 be suited to specific curricula 132 00:06:07,310 --> 00:06:05,700 interesting actually I often say that if 133 00:06:08,960 --> 00:06:07,320 we had set out to make a show that was 134 00:06:13,520 --> 00:06:08,970 really educational we would have failed 135 00:06:15,440 --> 00:06:13,530 miserably the fact is we understand that 136 00:06:18,080 --> 00:06:15,450 we tell a story we understand that story 137 00:06:20,210 --> 00:06:18,090 has elements to it about illuminating 138 00:06:22,610 --> 00:06:20,220 concepts to people but the show is 139 00:06:25,820 --> 00:06:22,620 really driven by the Jamie's and my 140 00:06:27,200 --> 00:06:25,830 curiosity and we take that measured 141 00:06:32,330 --> 00:06:27,210 really seriously all the other stuff 142 00:06:34,610 --> 00:06:32,340 tends to be I do believe there's a great 143 00:06:36,170 --> 00:06:34,620 curriculum in Mythbusters it's not 144 00:06:39,170 --> 00:06:36,180 something we have the time or the 145 00:06:41,930 --> 00:06:39,180 ability to do while we're filming 20 146 00:06:44,590 --> 00:06:41,940 some-odd shows per year 45 weeks a year 147 00:06:47,660 --> 00:06:44,600 10 hours a day five days a week and 148 00:06:51,080 --> 00:06:47,670 there are there are some there are some 149 00:06:52,370 --> 00:06:51,090 good books out there there's thousands 150 00:06:54,590 --> 00:06:52,380 of science teachers all over the world 151 00:06:56,390 --> 00:06:54,600 talking every Thursday morning after our 152 00:06:59,870 --> 00:06:56,400 show airs with their students about the 153 00:07:01,040 --> 00:06:59,880 stuff that we're doing but we have we 154 00:07:02,360 --> 00:07:01,050 just don't have the ability to build 155 00:07:04,010 --> 00:07:02,370 that curriculum right now now you 156 00:07:08,000 --> 00:07:04,020 mentioned the number of shows and how 157 00:07:10,610 --> 00:07:08,010 much hard work it is by last count I 158 00:07:13,910 --> 00:07:10,620 think you've done 125 shows so actually 159 00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:13,920 yeah we're currently filming I think 131 160 00:07:19,400 --> 00:07:15,810 but and that doesn't take into account 161 00:07:20,540 --> 00:07:19,410 the 25 30 some odd hours of specials 162 00:07:24,160 --> 00:07:20,550 that we've done so we've done i think 163 00:07:27,710 --> 00:07:24,170 close to 100 and close to a solid week 164 00:07:30,110 --> 00:07:27,720 168 hours a solid week 24 hours a day 165 00:07:31,760 --> 00:07:30,120 seven days of Mythbusters that's 166 00:07:33,890 --> 00:07:31,770 absolutely amazing and how do you keep 167 00:07:35,570 --> 00:07:33,900 fresh after I mean it's been seven years 168 00:07:38,150 --> 00:07:35,580 or seven eight years and and all that 169 00:07:39,560 --> 00:07:38,160 many shows how do you keep fresh how do 170 00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:39,570 you keep excited about it because he 171 00:07:42,890 --> 00:07:41,010 already it's quite obvious see the shows 172 00:07:44,450 --> 00:07:42,900 that you are excited yeah well like I 173 00:07:47,000 --> 00:07:44,460 said the sense of ownership is just 174 00:07:49,190 --> 00:07:47,010 increases every year Jamie and I started 175 00:07:50,600 --> 00:07:49,200 out as hired talent on a show that we 176 00:07:53,990 --> 00:07:50,610 all sort of figure out how to make at 177 00:07:56,300 --> 00:07:54,000 the same time and we are now you know 178 00:07:59,750 --> 00:07:56,310 effectively exactly the producers of 179 00:08:01,730 --> 00:07:59,760 this show we have a huge hand in content 180 00:08:06,020 --> 00:08:01,740 in the content direction and it's 181 00:08:09,290 --> 00:08:06,030 explication and the the core team of 182 00:08:11,029 --> 00:08:09,300 Jamie I Jamie me 183 00:08:12,469 --> 00:08:11,039 our director producer Alice tallow and 184 00:08:17,270 --> 00:08:12,479 our executive booster no Australia Dan 185 00:08:19,309 --> 00:08:17,280 tapster the four of us cares so deeply 186 00:08:22,159 --> 00:08:19,319 about this material and have so much fun 187 00:08:24,499 --> 00:08:22,169 with it i mean we argue constantly the 188 00:08:25,999 --> 00:08:24,509 right idea always wins out because it's 189 00:08:29,089 --> 00:08:26,009 really apparent to everyone once it 190 00:08:31,249 --> 00:08:29,099 shows up in the room and there's still 191 00:08:33,050 --> 00:08:31,259 plenty of material I mean we're we've 192 00:08:35,389 --> 00:08:33,060 got you know on our master list 193 00:08:37,940 --> 00:08:35,399 something like 250 stories that we can 194 00:08:39,769 --> 00:08:37,950 still do eternity's that major stories 195 00:08:43,190 --> 00:08:39,779 because you know that would be probably 196 00:08:45,519 --> 00:08:43,200 another 125 hours of Mythbusters okay my 197 00:08:49,910 --> 00:08:45,529 kids are very happy right now here is 198 00:08:52,310 --> 00:08:49,920 now you know you know those hundred and 199 00:08:53,540 --> 00:08:52,320 sixty eight hours of shows that what 200 00:08:57,199 --> 00:08:53,550 would you say was the most memorable 201 00:09:00,380 --> 00:08:57,209 adventure that you've had it's it's it's 202 00:09:02,630 --> 00:09:00,390 nearly impossible to say I mean because 203 00:09:06,350 --> 00:09:02,640 we've done so many I mean eight hundred 204 00:09:07,579 --> 00:09:06,360 some-odd different experiments and we're 205 00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:07,589 doing something different literally 206 00:09:12,980 --> 00:09:11,010 every five or six days the most recent 207 00:09:15,590 --> 00:09:12,990 really amazing thing was I got to fly in 208 00:09:17,360 --> 00:09:15,600 an f-18 Hornet with the Blue Angels I 209 00:09:19,610 --> 00:09:17,370 got to break the sound barrier seven or 210 00:09:23,150 --> 00:09:19,620 eight times I got to pull seven and a 211 00:09:25,160 --> 00:09:23,160 half G's which made me pass out and 212 00:09:30,620 --> 00:09:25,170 throw up and it was totally intense and 213 00:09:33,769 --> 00:09:30,630 completely amazing there are aspects of 214 00:09:35,660 --> 00:09:33,779 doing the show that vary depending on 215 00:09:37,519 --> 00:09:35,670 the episode there are episodes which I 216 00:09:39,319 --> 00:09:37,529 consider the science is the is is 217 00:09:40,610 --> 00:09:39,329 totally the best that we've ever been 218 00:09:41,900 --> 00:09:40,620 able to achieve things like bullets 219 00:09:44,389 --> 00:09:41,910 fired up or the penny from the Empire 220 00:09:46,730 --> 00:09:44,399 State Building or swimming in syrup 221 00:09:49,280 --> 00:09:46,740 there are episodes where I feel like the 222 00:09:51,170 --> 00:09:49,290 the the narrative itself is really 223 00:09:54,230 --> 00:09:51,180 thrilling and those are episodes like 224 00:09:56,090 --> 00:09:54,240 the Confederate rocket or Alcatraz 225 00:09:57,050 --> 00:09:56,100 escape and then their episodes which 226 00:09:58,880 --> 00:09:57,060 I've just considered the best 227 00:10:00,800 --> 00:09:58,890 description of how much fun the process 228 00:10:02,600 --> 00:10:00,810 is and that's led balloon that's my 229 00:10:04,880 --> 00:10:02,610 all-time favorite episode there's 230 00:10:09,319 --> 00:10:04,890 building a floating 14 foot diameter 231 00:10:12,860 --> 00:10:09,329 balloon out of 14 kilos and bled totally 232 00:10:15,019 --> 00:10:12,870 strong it was an amazing sale not you 233 00:10:19,369 --> 00:10:15,029 personally subject yourself to all kinds 234 00:10:23,779 --> 00:10:19,379 of experiments you almost drown and you 235 00:10:25,849 --> 00:10:23,789 I sit in a chair and and have drops of 236 00:10:27,829 --> 00:10:25,859 water dripping on your forehead I was 237 00:10:30,589 --> 00:10:27,839 just wondering whether you know of those 238 00:10:32,719 --> 00:10:30,599 experiments and experiences wherever you 239 00:10:36,079 --> 00:10:32,729 you've ever been really really scared I 240 00:10:37,819 --> 00:10:36,089 have been I have been I actually didn't 241 00:10:39,859 --> 00:10:37,829 nearly drown in the underwater car 242 00:10:41,179 --> 00:10:39,869 episode I was quite confident under the 243 00:10:45,619 --> 00:10:41,189 water I can hold my breath for almost 244 00:10:48,019 --> 00:10:45,629 two minutes the standing on the deck of 245 00:10:49,549 --> 00:10:48,029 the mythtanic which was a 28 ton steel 246 00:10:51,259 --> 00:10:49,559 boat waiting for it to sink and not 247 00:10:53,210 --> 00:10:51,269 knowing if it would suck me down when it 248 00:10:56,089 --> 00:10:53,220 went down was probably one of the 249 00:10:57,710 --> 00:10:56,099 scariest moments on the show that was 250 00:10:59,419 --> 00:10:57,720 one where we really didn't know what was 251 00:11:01,159 --> 00:10:59,429 going to happen we had safety divers we 252 00:11:03,309 --> 00:11:01,169 had paramedics and everything but we 253 00:11:06,309 --> 00:11:03,319 really didn't know and that was spooky 254 00:11:08,329 --> 00:11:06,319 for the most part at this point I 255 00:11:11,089 --> 00:11:08,339 volunteered for everything that I do I 256 00:11:13,519 --> 00:11:11,099 want to do it I've wanted to try it I 257 00:11:14,869 --> 00:11:13,529 wanted to sit in a car while it sank in 258 00:11:17,899 --> 00:11:14,879 the water wanted to know what that was 259 00:11:19,639 --> 00:11:17,909 like it was awesome I want it you know I 260 00:11:22,069 --> 00:11:19,649 I want to be my own action hero and the 261 00:11:24,889 --> 00:11:22,079 show lets me try that out on that I have 262 00:11:28,909 --> 00:11:24,899 to ask did grant actually volunteered to 263 00:11:30,619 --> 00:11:28,919 smell your shoes were your feet yeah was 264 00:11:32,539 --> 00:11:30,629 he forced to do you know I can't speak 265 00:11:36,919 --> 00:11:32,549 for the other guy I he might have been 266 00:11:38,479 --> 00:11:36,929 first okay now you've obviously have to 267 00:11:40,009 --> 00:11:38,489 be very inventive in the way you you 268 00:11:44,090 --> 00:11:40,019 perform those experiments you have to 269 00:11:46,249 --> 00:11:44,100 build all kinds of rigs and invent a lot 270 00:11:47,629 --> 00:11:46,259 of stuff but interested to know whether 271 00:11:50,119 --> 00:11:47,639 you've ever invented something that is 272 00:11:53,509 --> 00:11:50,129 actually a real invention as in 273 00:11:56,359 --> 00:11:53,519 patentable well I'm sure it's possible I 274 00:11:59,210 --> 00:11:56,369 know that we've done things in ways that 275 00:12:02,419 --> 00:11:59,220 I have never seen before when I built 276 00:12:03,679 --> 00:12:02,429 the the differential wind tunnel for the 277 00:12:06,079 --> 00:12:03,689 penny from the Empire State Building 278 00:12:07,699 --> 00:12:06,089 will kill you myth I had never seen a 279 00:12:09,169 --> 00:12:07,709 demonstration of a wind tone that had 280 00:12:11,149 --> 00:12:09,179 one speed at the bottom in a different 281 00:12:13,039 --> 00:12:11,159 speed at the top on the theory that the 282 00:12:15,019 --> 00:12:13,049 penny would have which has two different 283 00:12:17,419 --> 00:12:15,029 terminal velocities would tumble up and 284 00:12:20,509 --> 00:12:17,429 down with in that tube and it did and 285 00:12:22,069 --> 00:12:20,519 that was really thrilling to see that 286 00:12:23,809 --> 00:12:22,079 demonstration that was actually an early 287 00:12:27,229 --> 00:12:23,819 turning point for me in learning what my 288 00:12:29,119 --> 00:12:27,239 job was on the show was building a 289 00:12:31,420 --> 00:12:29,129 demonstration I thought was that elegant 290 00:12:33,639 --> 00:12:31,430 and lovely and without any 291 00:12:35,760 --> 00:12:33,649 without any guidebook or marker to work 292 00:12:39,910 --> 00:12:35,770 off of it gave me a lot of confidence 293 00:12:42,670 --> 00:12:39,920 okay your moon landing hoax episode is 294 00:12:45,760 --> 00:12:42,680 one of my personal favorites they're for 295 00:12:48,910 --> 00:12:45,770 obvious reasons do you plan to tackle 296 00:12:50,199 --> 00:12:48,920 any other conspiracy theories absolutely 297 00:12:52,170 --> 00:12:50,209 there on our list is that we have a 298 00:12:55,240 --> 00:12:52,180 whole nother hour of moon landing 299 00:12:57,040 --> 00:12:55,250 conspiracy theories the Kennedy 300 00:12:59,769 --> 00:12:57,050 assassination is one that shows up from 301 00:13:02,740 --> 00:12:59,779 time to time although the material is so 302 00:13:05,920 --> 00:13:02,750 grim the discovery which is a family 303 00:13:07,660 --> 00:13:05,930 network you know has a problem if we are 304 00:13:10,300 --> 00:13:07,670 going to start showing the Zapruder film 305 00:13:14,829 --> 00:13:10,310 on prime time on advertising supported 306 00:13:17,019 --> 00:13:14,839 cable absolutely for the most part you 307 00:13:18,940 --> 00:13:17,029 know people ask about testing the World 308 00:13:23,230 --> 00:13:18,950 Trade Center as a conspiracy theory and 309 00:13:26,019 --> 00:13:23,240 the problem we have with that is we know 310 00:13:28,030 --> 00:13:26,029 that we're not going to change anybody's 311 00:13:31,510 --> 00:13:28,040 mind unless we went full size and that's 312 00:13:34,269 --> 00:13:31,520 just not feasible yes so we stay away 313 00:13:38,050 --> 00:13:34,279 from things where we recognize the test 314 00:13:39,699 --> 00:13:38,060 test is going to not demonstrate it's 315 00:13:41,470 --> 00:13:39,709 very hard to scale building materials 316 00:13:43,600 --> 00:13:41,480 it's very hard to scale materials and 317 00:13:45,370 --> 00:13:43,610 their behavioral characteristics and 318 00:13:47,260 --> 00:13:45,380 that would make trying to come up with a 319 00:13:49,600 --> 00:13:47,270 definitive answer on that test a losing 320 00:13:53,050 --> 00:13:49,610 proposition very likely and being 321 00:13:58,390 --> 00:13:53,060 explosion the prone to explosions you'd 322 00:14:00,490 --> 00:13:58,400 be blamed for exactly faking it is now 323 00:14:02,920 --> 00:14:00,500 in the past I remember had you an 324 00:14:05,230 --> 00:14:02,930 interview somewhere mentioning that you 325 00:14:08,050 --> 00:14:05,240 would like to bust the myth that 326 00:14:09,430 --> 00:14:08,060 evolution is not true right I'm I was 327 00:14:10,810 --> 00:14:09,440 just really glad you phrased it that way 328 00:14:13,210 --> 00:14:10,820 yeah I know because you phrased it in 329 00:14:14,860 --> 00:14:13,220 here actually then I do remember that 330 00:14:16,660 --> 00:14:14,870 actually but maybe it was on the 331 00:14:18,160 --> 00:14:16,670 skeptics guide to the universe yeah it's 332 00:14:21,430 --> 00:14:18,170 a nice guy it's been corrected on my 333 00:14:23,500 --> 00:14:21,440 Wikipedia page goodness um but i'm just 334 00:14:26,350 --> 00:14:23,510 wondering whether you've made any steps 335 00:14:28,530 --> 00:14:26,360 in that direction and do you have any 336 00:14:30,940 --> 00:14:28,540 thoughts about how it might be done no I 337 00:14:33,420 --> 00:14:30,950 unfortunately I think there's we're in 338 00:14:36,610 --> 00:14:33,430 this we're in this zone where we're 339 00:14:40,800 --> 00:14:36,620 demonstrating evolution demonstrating 340 00:14:43,470 --> 00:14:40,810 natural selection is just very likely to 341 00:14:48,930 --> 00:14:43,480 exhaustively boring for the farm 342 00:14:52,110 --> 00:14:48,940 out of our particular show and to be 343 00:14:53,759 --> 00:14:52,120 quite honest it's not going no 344 00:14:56,040 --> 00:14:53,769 demonstration we did of that is actually 345 00:14:57,900 --> 00:14:56,050 going to satisfy young earth herbs who 346 00:14:59,699 --> 00:14:57,910 was actually who I was talking about 347 00:15:01,410 --> 00:14:59,709 when i was first saying that i was 348 00:15:02,639 --> 00:15:01,420 thinking oh you proved natural selection 349 00:15:04,350 --> 00:15:02,649 and get rid of the younger thurs but no 350 00:15:05,910 --> 00:15:04,360 actually younger thurs who believe the 351 00:15:07,470 --> 00:15:05,920 world is 6,000 years old actually do you 352 00:15:10,860 --> 00:15:07,480 believe in a form of super high-speed 353 00:15:12,900 --> 00:15:10,870 evolution that Noah somehow had one dog 354 00:15:15,060 --> 00:15:12,910 that grew in the last six thousand years 355 00:15:18,269 --> 00:15:15,070 to you know 27,000 different breeds or 356 00:15:19,530 --> 00:15:18,279 something like that so I think we're 357 00:15:21,389 --> 00:15:19,540 gonna have to leave that one for a 358 00:15:23,250 --> 00:15:21,399 different format of the show yeah I 359 00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:23,260 think Richard Lensky of your head of 360 00:15:27,930 --> 00:15:25,810 vilensky experiment with a école I know 361 00:15:29,460 --> 00:15:27,940 he's actually no no I haven't but it's 362 00:15:31,230 --> 00:15:29,470 taken 20 years i'm not sure you have 363 00:15:33,660 --> 00:15:31,240 that long what's that it's taken about 364 00:15:35,790 --> 00:15:33,670 20 years i was meticulously collecting 365 00:15:37,650 --> 00:15:35,800 material and sampling and freezing and 366 00:15:39,720 --> 00:15:37,660 his date is beautiful it's absolutely 367 00:15:41,519 --> 00:15:39,730 amazing because actually evolution in a 368 00:15:43,500 --> 00:15:41,529 lab reproducible because you can go back 369 00:15:45,780 --> 00:15:43,510 to any generation he wants yes and it 370 00:15:47,879 --> 00:15:45,790 it's astonishing yeah the work is 371 00:15:51,540 --> 00:15:47,889 incredible I Valley we're not sure we 372 00:15:53,610 --> 00:15:51,550 would make very good television there if 373 00:15:56,670 --> 00:15:53,620 you ever done is Mythbusters show or 374 00:15:58,920 --> 00:15:56,680 something like it on stage um no people 375 00:16:00,870 --> 00:15:58,930 ask us to do that the problem is we are 376 00:16:03,660 --> 00:16:00,880 not a demonstration show we're an 377 00:16:05,280 --> 00:16:03,670 experimental Shelton is so the stuff 378 00:16:07,650 --> 00:16:05,290 that people would do on stage is a 379 00:16:09,750 --> 00:16:07,660 demonstration of a scientific concept 380 00:16:13,280 --> 00:16:09,760 and that totally doesn't interest us at 381 00:16:15,300 --> 00:16:13,290 all we don't we understand that we may 382 00:16:17,519 --> 00:16:15,310 like we did been slipping on a banana 383 00:16:18,750 --> 00:16:17,529 peel recently and if you're going to 384 00:16:20,100 --> 00:16:18,760 investigate slipping on a banana peel 385 00:16:21,569 --> 00:16:20,110 you have to look at the difference 386 00:16:24,210 --> 00:16:21,579 between static and dynamic friction 387 00:16:25,740 --> 00:16:24,220 there are two different forces and both 388 00:16:28,949 --> 00:16:25,750 come into play on slipping on a banana 389 00:16:33,059 --> 00:16:28,959 peel so when I looked at when I started 390 00:16:34,860 --> 00:16:33,069 talking to a structure an engineer about 391 00:16:36,240 --> 00:16:34,870 that I was like that's great okay so we 392 00:16:37,920 --> 00:16:36,250 should do some tests that demonstrate 393 00:16:40,019 --> 00:16:37,930 the difference between static and 394 00:16:43,829 --> 00:16:40,029 dynamic friction and coefficients of 395 00:16:45,600 --> 00:16:43,839 friction and overcoming them etc but 396 00:16:47,160 --> 00:16:45,610 again that's only to illustrate this to 397 00:16:49,110 --> 00:16:47,170 get to the end of this story and figure 398 00:16:50,699 --> 00:16:49,120 out about banana peels I don't really 399 00:16:51,780 --> 00:16:50,709 care about doing a demonstration on 400 00:16:53,160 --> 00:16:51,790 stage about the difference between 401 00:16:54,210 --> 00:16:53,170 static and dynamic friction I don't 402 00:16:55,319 --> 00:16:54,220 think anyone else would want to watch it 403 00:16:56,910 --> 00:16:55,329 either 404 00:16:58,439 --> 00:16:56,920 really I think when people say they love 405 00:16:59,879 --> 00:16:58,449 us to do something on stage they mean 406 00:17:02,429 --> 00:16:59,889 they want us to blow something up and 407 00:17:04,289 --> 00:17:02,439 that's never going to happen so for the 408 00:17:05,669 --> 00:17:04,299 most part people are kind of out of 409 00:17:08,309 --> 00:17:05,679 luck when it comes to us doing 410 00:17:09,600 --> 00:17:08,319 myth-busting on stage I did have an idea 411 00:17:11,309 --> 00:17:09,610 of recently we got asked to do an 412 00:17:13,110 --> 00:17:11,319 appearance for 25,000 people and I did 413 00:17:15,419 --> 00:17:13,120 want to I still might want to try this 414 00:17:17,309 --> 00:17:15,429 in some kind of venue just to get 415 00:17:19,409 --> 00:17:17,319 everyone in the stadium to jump up at 416 00:17:22,470 --> 00:17:19,419 the same moment and see how far away we 417 00:17:25,710 --> 00:17:22,480 can read the resulting bump on Richter 418 00:17:27,149 --> 00:17:25,720 scales very interesting well from we are 419 00:17:29,279 --> 00:17:27,159 from Australian skeptics and we have a 420 00:17:31,259 --> 00:17:29,289 big convention at the end of 2010 and 421 00:17:33,120 --> 00:17:31,269 your production companies obviously 422 00:17:34,710 --> 00:17:33,130 Australian in fact I go past their 423 00:17:38,310 --> 00:17:34,720 officers every morning on my way to work 424 00:17:39,899 --> 00:17:38,320 yeah so we were thinking of that would 425 00:17:41,940 --> 00:17:39,909 be great if you could come to Australia 426 00:17:43,529 --> 00:17:41,950 and do something on stage I would look 427 00:17:45,180 --> 00:17:43,539 well ok I can guarantee you we're not 428 00:17:46,740 --> 00:17:45,190 going to do something on stage but we've 429 00:17:48,870 --> 00:17:46,750 always wanted to get down under we've 430 00:17:51,539 --> 00:17:48,880 never even visited the home offices of 431 00:17:52,620 --> 00:17:51,549 our own production company and we know 432 00:17:54,930 --> 00:17:52,630 that there's at least a good two hours 433 00:17:56,490 --> 00:17:54,940 in Australian myths will definitely be 434 00:17:58,860 --> 00:17:56,500 in touch and hopefully we'll be able to 435 00:18:00,899 --> 00:17:58,870 do something about bringing us really 436 00:18:02,279 --> 00:18:00,909 yeah even not even just as guests yes 437 00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:02,289 you know you know whatever the video is 438 00:18:05,669 --> 00:18:03,730 I want to actually demonstrate how 439 00:18:07,620 --> 00:18:05,679 difficult it is to view the Coriolis 440 00:18:09,090 --> 00:18:07,630 force difference between above the 441 00:18:11,070 --> 00:18:09,100 equator and below the equator that 442 00:18:13,259 --> 00:18:11,080 Australia is perfectly situated at a 443 00:18:16,740 --> 00:18:13,269 about this roughly the same latitude of 444 00:18:20,970 --> 00:18:16,750 San Francisco yeah Sydney is I think 33 445 00:18:22,680 --> 00:18:20,980 so what that 33 sounds right buzz and we 446 00:18:25,620 --> 00:18:22,690 could absolutely demonstrate it to 447 00:18:27,389 --> 00:18:25,630 chorus choral Coriolis force is real and 448 00:18:28,350 --> 00:18:27,399 that it does make things spin in 449 00:18:30,389 --> 00:18:28,360 opposite directions from my 450 00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:30,399 understanding of the science however it 451 00:18:34,350 --> 00:18:33,010 takes three or four days after pouring 452 00:18:36,450 --> 00:18:34,360 the water into a vessel to let the 453 00:18:39,389 --> 00:18:36,460 vessel settle get rid of everything but 454 00:18:41,669 --> 00:18:39,399 the Brownian motion and then to cleanly 455 00:18:43,200 --> 00:18:41,679 pull a plug it's very complicated i'm 456 00:18:45,149 --> 00:18:43,210 really looking forward to doing it yeah 457 00:18:47,610 --> 00:18:45,159 i've actually done a demonstration video 458 00:18:49,830 --> 00:18:47,620 with a with a rubber ducky 10 for a 459 00:18:52,139 --> 00:18:49,840 science show in Israel for so that's 460 00:18:53,610 --> 00:18:52,149 great it was very easy to make it go 461 00:18:55,710 --> 00:18:53,620 whichever way I want to do yeah yeah 462 00:18:59,159 --> 00:18:55,720 yeah what story to do stir the water a 463 00:19:01,379 --> 00:18:59,169 little bit message yes now a personal 464 00:19:04,659 --> 00:19:01,389 question perhaps you've you've been 465 00:19:06,519 --> 00:19:04,669 known to use Twitter to avoid paying 466 00:19:09,430 --> 00:19:06,529 I didn't anything to avoid paying their 467 00:19:12,669 --> 00:19:09,440 $15,000 phone bill I use it to achieve 468 00:19:14,950 --> 00:19:12,679 what is right now the phone companies 469 00:19:16,720 --> 00:19:14,960 are still getting away with charging one 470 00:19:18,580 --> 00:19:16,730 two three cents per kilobyte just 471 00:19:19,690 --> 00:19:18,590 because no one's looking and people 472 00:19:22,570 --> 00:19:19,700 don't understand the difference between 473 00:19:24,759 --> 00:19:22,580 a kilobyte and kill a bit and an email 474 00:19:27,340 --> 00:19:24,769 and how much data is actually there and 475 00:19:33,070 --> 00:19:27,350 while no one quite understands that the 476 00:19:35,349 --> 00:19:33,080 phone company is robbing people so I 477 00:19:37,029 --> 00:19:35,359 absolutely I pay attention to the social 478 00:19:39,909 --> 00:19:37,039 networking sites i read gizmodo bling 479 00:19:41,710 --> 00:19:39,919 bling fart reddit all those sites every 480 00:19:42,999 --> 00:19:41,720 day I know the stories that have come up 481 00:19:44,560 --> 00:19:43,009 in people getting ins orbited phone 482 00:19:45,970 --> 00:19:44,570 bills for crossing a national border 483 00:19:47,259 --> 00:19:45,980 while they were downloading a movie on 484 00:19:50,440 --> 00:19:47,269 their phone or something like that I 485 00:19:52,869 --> 00:19:50,450 knew it would be a good story and I 486 00:19:54,009 --> 00:19:52,879 tweeted with full knowledge that I would 487 00:19:57,399 --> 00:19:54,019 hopefully guilt to the phone company 488 00:19:59,440 --> 00:19:57,409 into granting a reprieve from the cost 489 00:20:00,999 --> 00:19:59,450 and they did almost immediately that's 490 00:20:03,279 --> 00:20:01,009 very nice of them would fame alone not 491 00:20:05,830 --> 00:20:03,289 have achieved that um you know what they 492 00:20:07,749 --> 00:20:05,840 claim not and i dunno i've gotten plenty 493 00:20:08,769 --> 00:20:07,759 of emails from people saying you know 494 00:20:10,090 --> 00:20:08,779 they're not famous they don't have a 495 00:20:11,710 --> 00:20:10,100 crapload of Twitter followers and they 496 00:20:13,720 --> 00:20:11,720 got the phone company to wipe the cost 497 00:20:15,220 --> 00:20:13,730 and honestly I've had big international 498 00:20:16,539 --> 00:20:15,230 bills before that I've called up the 499 00:20:18,789 --> 00:20:16,549 phone company and said can you back date 500 00:20:20,109 --> 00:20:18,799 me to an international plan and charged 501 00:20:22,269 --> 00:20:20,119 me what I would have been paying and 502 00:20:24,159 --> 00:20:22,279 they've always agreed to do that phone 503 00:20:27,340 --> 00:20:24,169 companies don't want to screw you but in 504 00:20:29,619 --> 00:20:27,350 this I mean their first offer was well 505 00:20:30,970 --> 00:20:29,629 we can reduce it from 15,000 to 4,000 506 00:20:34,119 --> 00:20:30,980 and I'm like you're insane i surf the 507 00:20:37,060 --> 00:20:34,129 web for two and a half hours there is no 508 00:20:39,519 --> 00:20:37,070 the Space Shuttle pays 100 of that to 509 00:20:40,810 --> 00:20:39,529 receive data from NASA you're on crack 510 00:20:43,299 --> 00:20:40,820 if you think I'm going to pay it and 511 00:20:45,460 --> 00:20:43,309 I'll use every bit of my fame to make 512 00:20:47,409 --> 00:20:45,470 sure that you guys are guilted into 513 00:20:49,090 --> 00:20:47,419 releasing me from this obligation to 514 00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:49,100 their credit they were incredibly nice 515 00:20:52,269 --> 00:20:50,690 they called me almost immediately and 516 00:20:53,409 --> 00:20:52,279 they've been super gracious the whole 517 00:20:55,599 --> 00:20:53,419 time I've been dealing with them that's 518 00:20:56,979 --> 00:20:55,609 what it does show something about the 519 00:20:59,139 --> 00:20:56,989 power of the social networks and we're 520 00:21:00,669 --> 00:20:59,149 also seeing inception movie absolutely 521 00:21:03,039 --> 00:21:00,679 that's how the message gets out and 522 00:21:04,690 --> 00:21:03,049 bringing in younger people into the pole 523 00:21:06,249 --> 00:21:04,700 because it's so easy to not to make the 524 00:21:10,749 --> 00:21:06,259 contact and to be become part of 525 00:21:12,700 --> 00:21:10,759 something so that's we are right now my 526 00:21:13,749 --> 00:21:12,710 children asked asked me to ask a couple 527 00:21:15,729 --> 00:21:13,759 of questions they're actually good 528 00:21:17,860 --> 00:21:15,739 question so I'm happy to to quote them 529 00:21:21,320 --> 00:21:17,870 what's the weirdest job you've ever had 530 00:21:22,790 --> 00:21:21,330 mmm I've had a lot of weird jobs I've 531 00:21:25,460 --> 00:21:22,800 seemed to have ended up spending in an 532 00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:25,470 ordinate of time in my early 20s working 533 00:21:31,430 --> 00:21:28,010 or working with and around drag queens 534 00:21:32,810 --> 00:21:31,440 no I was worked for a year as a 535 00:21:34,310 --> 00:21:32,820 projectionist at the eighth street 536 00:21:38,360 --> 00:21:34,320 playhouse in New York where the rocky 537 00:21:40,670 --> 00:21:38,370 horror picture show fad began I spent 538 00:21:42,230 --> 00:21:40,680 six months running lights for a drag 539 00:21:44,110 --> 00:21:42,240 queen version of whatever happened to 540 00:21:46,940 --> 00:21:44,120 Baby Jane in San Francisco which was a 541 00:21:49,130 --> 00:21:46,950 legendary production that was just sick 542 00:21:50,660 --> 00:21:49,140 and wrong and beautiful and amazing and 543 00:21:54,880 --> 00:21:50,670 I spent two and a half years working for 544 00:21:57,440 --> 00:21:54,890 a really renowned drag to that all drag 545 00:21:59,810 --> 00:21:57,450 turn camp comedy revue in San Francisco 546 00:22:01,280 --> 00:21:59,820 called beach blanket babylon and those 547 00:22:03,620 --> 00:22:01,290 three absolutely take the cake yeah 548 00:22:06,110 --> 00:22:03,630 sounds like they do and the last 549 00:22:09,560 --> 00:22:06,120 question is do you ever feel sorry for 550 00:22:11,120 --> 00:22:09,570 buster no actually Buster a terrific 551 00:22:12,980 --> 00:22:11,130 release for any aggression that I might 552 00:22:14,360 --> 00:22:12,990 have on any given day and throwing him 553 00:22:16,100 --> 00:22:14,370 face-first out of the back of the truck 554 00:22:18,530 --> 00:22:16,110 is just as satisfying as you imagine 555 00:22:19,820 --> 00:22:18,540 that it is okay thank you very much I 556 00:22:22,130 --> 00:22:19,830 don't think I'll being on the Skip exam 557 00:22:26,980 --> 00:22:22,140 thank you 558 00:22:35,170 --> 00:22:29,660 and now a message from the inside of 559 00:22:40,550 --> 00:22:37,880 thank you to everybody who came up to 560 00:22:42,170 --> 00:22:40,560 see me at the amazing meeting and thank 561 00:22:44,710 --> 00:22:42,180 you for those who bought my origami 562 00:22:51,290 --> 00:22:44,720 earrings I've set up a little store at 563 00:22:55,420 --> 00:22:51,300 skeptic zone ETS y dot com it all goes 564 00:23:08,450 --> 00:22:58,460 you're listening to the skeptic zone I'm 565 00:23:10,640 --> 00:23:08,460 Brian Dunning from SCAP thaicom I'm 566 00:23:12,620 --> 00:23:10,650 Carly Sturgis and I'm certain that we 567 00:23:14,510 --> 00:23:12,630 all wonder if science education is 568 00:23:16,940 --> 00:23:14,520 really something that only happens in 569 00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:16,950 schools our do children best learn 570 00:23:21,500 --> 00:23:19,770 science what is learning anyway and what 571 00:23:24,560 --> 00:23:21,510 will happen to Australia when we get a 572 00:23:26,990 --> 00:23:24,570 national curriculum today's interview is 573 00:23:28,310 --> 00:23:27,000 with Professor Leone Rennie she is 574 00:23:30,530 --> 00:23:28,320 professor of Science and Technology 575 00:23:32,750 --> 00:23:30,540 studies is the former dean of graduate 576 00:23:34,580 --> 00:23:32,760 studies and currently a research 577 00:23:36,830 --> 00:23:34,590 professor at the Department of research 578 00:23:40,100 --> 00:23:36,840 and development at the Curtin University 579 00:23:41,390 --> 00:23:40,110 of Technology in Western Australia she 580 00:23:42,950 --> 00:23:41,400 has written extensively on the 581 00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:42,960 community's contribution to science 582 00:23:47,630 --> 00:23:44,970 learning and the impact of the public 583 00:23:50,300 --> 00:23:47,640 understanding of science professor any 584 00:23:52,010 --> 00:23:50,310 also contributed as a co-author to the 585 00:23:55,820 --> 00:23:52,020 Australian school science education 586 00:23:57,710 --> 00:23:55,830 national action plan for 2008 to 2012 587 00:24:00,080 --> 00:23:57,720 with the aim of achieving agreement 588 00:24:01,730 --> 00:24:00,090 about priority actions to be pursued 589 00:24:04,190 --> 00:24:01,740 through national collaborative efforts 590 00:24:05,630 --> 00:24:04,200 professor Annie's work on the learning 591 00:24:08,390 --> 00:24:05,640 of science in formal and informal 592 00:24:10,460 --> 00:24:08,400 contexts has greatly informed science 593 00:24:12,860 --> 00:24:10,470 communication which is why are we 594 00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:12,870 starting my interview by asking what is 595 00:24:27,530 --> 00:24:25,670 I'm here at Curtin University with 596 00:24:31,430 --> 00:24:27,540 Professor Leone ready and it's lovely to 597 00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:31,440 meet you Leone hello Carly ok what is 598 00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:33,450 science communication I am talking to 599 00:24:37,670 --> 00:24:36,090 someone who is a major force for science 600 00:24:40,430 --> 00:24:37,680 communication in Australia what on earth 601 00:24:43,610 --> 00:24:40,440 does that mean I'm in science 602 00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:43,620 communication I science communication is 603 00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:47,010 generally held to be the communication 604 00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:48,210 of science to people who aren't 605 00:24:52,790 --> 00:24:51,450 scientists and usually adults because if 606 00:24:55,910 --> 00:24:52,800 they're in school then it's called 607 00:24:59,390 --> 00:24:55,920 science education probably so science 608 00:25:01,430 --> 00:24:59,400 communication is a I think we could 609 00:25:07,220 --> 00:25:01,440 probably say it's almost its own 610 00:25:09,220 --> 00:25:07,230 discipline now and it relates to the it 611 00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:09,230 really has to be a way of changing 612 00:25:15,110 --> 00:25:12,090 science as the scientists see it into a 613 00:25:19,130 --> 00:25:15,120 form that is understandable to the 614 00:25:22,340 --> 00:25:19,140 general public and in the past the 615 00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:22,350 unfortunate acronym of paths which stood 616 00:25:27,350 --> 00:25:24,650 for public understanding of science 617 00:25:32,270 --> 00:25:27,360 which came to the fore in probably the 618 00:25:35,270 --> 00:25:32,280 1980s was it has been slated as being a 619 00:25:36,830 --> 00:25:35,280 somewhat deficit approach in the idea 620 00:25:38,330 --> 00:25:36,840 that the public are pretty dumb they 621 00:25:40,580 --> 00:25:38,340 don't know much so if we give them lots 622 00:25:42,710 --> 00:25:40,590 of science stuff then they'll become and 623 00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:42,720 scientifically literate or whatever and 624 00:25:46,970 --> 00:25:44,610 we're communicating our science so this 625 00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:46,980 kind of top-down approach is pretty well 626 00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:51,090 at the window now I think I think it's 627 00:25:59,320 --> 00:25:53,490 fair to say that a significant change 628 00:26:02,270 --> 00:25:59,330 was facilitated by the BSC the bovine 629 00:26:04,790 --> 00:26:02,280 and civilized year that's the ones under 630 00:26:07,370 --> 00:26:04,800 whatever lungi from where the brain gets 631 00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:07,380 a dreadful disease exactly the mad cow 632 00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:11,490 disease was so badly handled in England 633 00:26:15,590 --> 00:26:13,050 in terms of communicating information 634 00:26:16,409 --> 00:26:15,600 out to the public that there is movement 635 00:26:18,239 --> 00:26:16,419 amongst 636 00:26:21,060 --> 00:26:18,249 Parliament and so on a lot of surveys 637 00:26:24,659 --> 00:26:21,070 and so on parliamentary statements in 638 00:26:27,419 --> 00:26:24,669 England and it does now recognition that 639 00:26:29,310 --> 00:26:27,429 it's not so much telling the public but 640 00:26:32,099 --> 00:26:29,320 it's actually engaging the public in 641 00:26:35,539 --> 00:26:32,109 more of a two-way dialogue between the 642 00:26:37,470 --> 00:26:35,549 scientists in between the public 643 00:26:39,269 --> 00:26:37,480 recognizing that the public is not a 644 00:26:41,129 --> 00:26:39,279 homogeneous body but he peaked very 645 00:26:43,019 --> 00:26:41,139 heterogeneous body with people with 646 00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:43,029 varying interests and understandings 647 00:26:48,930 --> 00:26:46,210 about science so that's rather long 648 00:26:50,489 --> 00:26:48,940 explanation I think and it's become a 649 00:26:52,590 --> 00:26:50,499 discipline as something that people 650 00:26:54,930 --> 00:26:52,600 study at university in fact there are 651 00:26:56,909 --> 00:26:54,940 very large number of science 652 00:26:59,279 --> 00:26:56,919 communication courses quite a few in 653 00:27:03,330 --> 00:26:59,289 Australia there's a new one to starting 654 00:27:05,399 --> 00:27:03,340 up at UWA I think there's probably than 655 00:27:09,299 --> 00:27:05,409 one the most prestigious one is the one 656 00:27:11,070 --> 00:27:09,309 at the anu and australian national 657 00:27:13,649 --> 00:27:11,080 university which comes out of the scent 658 00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:13,659 of public awareness of science and the 659 00:27:18,210 --> 00:27:15,970 director of that center so stock or maya 660 00:27:20,820 --> 00:27:18,220 would in my view be one of the leading 661 00:27:22,889 --> 00:27:20,830 science communicators in australia so 662 00:27:25,590 --> 00:27:22,899 does one have to have a degree in 663 00:27:27,629 --> 00:27:25,600 science communication to become a 664 00:27:30,930 --> 00:27:27,639 science communicator is it that sort of 665 00:27:33,419 --> 00:27:30,940 strict in terms of defining it no i 666 00:27:35,369 --> 00:27:33,429 would not think so i think that people 667 00:27:36,899 --> 00:27:35,379 who can communicate science don't 668 00:27:38,580 --> 00:27:36,909 necessarily call themself science 669 00:27:40,289 --> 00:27:38,590 communicators they just passionate about 670 00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:40,299 their subject and they can communicate 671 00:27:45,450 --> 00:27:42,970 it there are a lot of scientists who are 672 00:27:47,310 --> 00:27:45,460 not good science communicators because 673 00:27:49,049 --> 00:27:47,320 they somehow aren't able to make what it 674 00:27:51,690 --> 00:27:49,059 is they're saying intelligible and 675 00:27:54,690 --> 00:27:51,700 understanding to the to the public to 676 00:27:56,549 --> 00:27:54,700 whom they're speaking and Sue stockmeyer 677 00:27:58,649 --> 00:27:56,559 and her colleagues might go in 678 00:28:00,810 --> 00:27:58,659 particular who you may recall was the 679 00:28:02,399 --> 00:28:00,820 founder of Questacon Australia's 680 00:28:05,190 --> 00:28:02,409 national science and technology center 681 00:28:07,700 --> 00:28:05,200 do a lot of work both in Australia and 682 00:28:13,020 --> 00:28:10,770 promulgating ways for scientists to 683 00:28:15,510 --> 00:28:13,030 learn to communicate better and they see 684 00:28:17,670 --> 00:28:15,520 that they being assigned to see that is 685 00:28:18,990 --> 00:28:17,680 beneficial because if people I can't 686 00:28:20,460 --> 00:28:19,000 understand what they're doing they feel 687 00:28:23,130 --> 00:28:20,470 as if they're more likely to get public 688 00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:23,140 support for what it is they're doing so 689 00:28:26,730 --> 00:28:24,730 what are the keys to communicating 690 00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:26,740 science well what are some of the big 691 00:28:33,150 --> 00:28:29,410 lessons that these people learn I think 692 00:28:36,270 --> 00:28:33,160 it's recognition of where the audience 693 00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:36,280 to whom you wish to communicate where 694 00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:40,810 they're at and then preparing or 695 00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:42,850 changing what it is you've prepared in 696 00:28:48,690 --> 00:28:46,450 fact so that it's understandable by that 697 00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:48,700 particular audience and I thoroughness 698 00:28:52,410 --> 00:28:50,530 essence of any sort of communication 699 00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:52,420 science communication is just something 700 00:28:58,050 --> 00:28:53,770 to do with the content that you're 701 00:28:59,760 --> 00:28:58,060 trying to communicate so learning is one 702 00:29:01,460 --> 00:28:59,770 of the big factors within it how do we 703 00:29:05,370 --> 00:29:01,470 learn what sort of things do we know 704 00:29:06,930 --> 00:29:05,380 influence us learning well and among I 705 00:29:10,740 --> 00:29:06,940 imagine science communicators must want 706 00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:10,750 to tap into that yes learnings not easy 707 00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:13,090 to define no I've noticed that as an 708 00:29:17,250 --> 00:29:15,610 educator myself or ten years I get a 709 00:29:18,990 --> 00:29:17,260 different PD all the time about all this 710 00:29:21,180 --> 00:29:19,000 is going to be the way to do it and is 711 00:29:23,790 --> 00:29:21,190 like next week Abby oh come up with 712 00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:23,800 something new so what do we know well i 713 00:29:28,860 --> 00:29:26,530 think that the bottom line is that 714 00:29:30,780 --> 00:29:28,870 people learn differently yeah and i like 715 00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:30,790 looking at graphs some tables and 716 00:29:35,220 --> 00:29:33,130 mathematical representations of what it 717 00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:35,230 is on learning other people like two 718 00:29:43,050 --> 00:29:39,130 pictures of people like to just read 719 00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:43,060 words so that's and some people like to 720 00:29:46,950 --> 00:29:44,890 hear things some people like to see 721 00:29:49,370 --> 00:29:46,960 things so there's a whole way of taking 722 00:29:53,820 --> 00:29:49,380 in the information that one has to learn 723 00:29:56,070 --> 00:29:53,830 I think the three important things about 724 00:29:58,770 --> 00:29:56,080 learning personally is that it's a it's 725 00:30:02,070 --> 00:29:58,780 a unique personal process 726 00:30:03,690 --> 00:30:02,080 that is cumulative so what anything that 727 00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:03,700 you anything you learned that two new 728 00:30:07,890 --> 00:30:05,410 will usually build from what you already 729 00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:07,900 know and it could change it or just add 730 00:30:13,620 --> 00:30:10,090 to it and the third thing is that 731 00:30:18,420 --> 00:30:13,630 learning takes time and so one of the 732 00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:18,430 criticisms of people saying that science 733 00:30:22,350 --> 00:30:20,410 centers for example in museums or places 734 00:30:24,060 --> 00:30:22,360 of learning is that well you know how 735 00:30:26,790 --> 00:30:24,070 can I learn anything only there for an 736 00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:26,800 hour or two hours and the thing is that 737 00:30:33,900 --> 00:30:29,530 in that hour or two hour they could have 738 00:30:36,420 --> 00:30:33,910 a an enlightened moment where they see 739 00:30:38,910 --> 00:30:36,430 something that fits into other stuff 740 00:30:41,100 --> 00:30:38,920 that they knew before or somewhere down 741 00:30:43,500 --> 00:30:41,110 the track they can have an experience 742 00:30:45,540 --> 00:30:43,510 that harks back to what they did this 743 00:30:48,990 --> 00:30:45,550 and experience in a science center or a 744 00:30:51,780 --> 00:30:49,000 museum and say oh yeah now I get it sort 745 00:30:54,030 --> 00:30:51,790 of their their personal epiphany if you 746 00:30:56,070 --> 00:30:54,040 like that whatever it is that they've 747 00:30:58,140 --> 00:30:56,080 just learned this is in fact something 748 00:30:59,940 --> 00:30:58,150 that you've done research on and written 749 00:31:03,620 --> 00:30:59,950 about the importance of science museums 750 00:31:09,450 --> 00:31:03,630 and I have yes I've done a fair bit in 751 00:31:11,700 --> 00:31:09,460 that area and I think that science 752 00:31:15,150 --> 00:31:11,710 museums and and museums and a whole 753 00:31:17,220 --> 00:31:15,160 range of out of school experiences have 754 00:31:19,260 --> 00:31:17,230 got the potential to teach people a lot 755 00:31:21,510 --> 00:31:19,270 about science and in fact when you think 756 00:31:22,980 --> 00:31:21,520 that even for a schoolchild the 757 00:31:27,330 --> 00:31:22,990 percentage of time that they actually 758 00:31:29,970 --> 00:31:27,340 spend in school is much less than half 759 00:31:33,810 --> 00:31:29,980 of that lifetime even if you take out 760 00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:33,820 the sleeping hours and of all that time 761 00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:35,170 they spend in school only a small 762 00:31:38,760 --> 00:31:36,610 portion of its going to be devoted to 763 00:31:40,350 --> 00:31:38,770 science so a lot of science learning is 764 00:31:42,510 --> 00:31:40,360 going to be happening outside of school 765 00:31:44,910 --> 00:31:42,520 anyway even for school children and 766 00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:44,920 teachers need to be aware of what kids 767 00:31:48,420 --> 00:31:46,210 are coming in with what knowledge 768 00:31:51,780 --> 00:31:48,430 they've got which can be wrong and can 769 00:31:55,710 --> 00:31:51,790 be right can be your formed can be very 770 00:31:57,030 --> 00:31:55,720 resistant to change teachers have to 771 00:32:00,680 --> 00:31:57,040 work with that 772 00:32:03,090 --> 00:32:00,690 and help students to move into a more 773 00:32:05,460 --> 00:32:03,100 scientifically acceptable I am thinking 774 00:32:06,690 --> 00:32:05,470 I think if they want to progress in and 775 00:32:09,540 --> 00:32:06,700 learn the sort of science that 776 00:32:12,030 --> 00:32:09,550 scientists deal with there's a variety 777 00:32:14,100 --> 00:32:12,040 of other programs to we mums and science 778 00:32:17,010 --> 00:32:14,110 and scientists and schools as well i 779 00:32:19,620 --> 00:32:17,020 believe is because their science to the 780 00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:19,630 classroom yes scientists in schools an 781 00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:21,370 interesting program but you mentioned 782 00:32:25,770 --> 00:32:23,770 mums in science first I think the anu 783 00:32:27,150 --> 00:32:25,780 through see past the center public 784 00:32:28,980 --> 00:32:27,160 awareness of science had a very 785 00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:28,990 successful program last year which i 786 00:32:33,870 --> 00:32:31,450 think the main benefit was learning mums 787 00:32:35,220 --> 00:32:33,880 come and actually do stuff and giving 788 00:32:37,590 --> 00:32:35,230 them the confidence that they could 789 00:32:38,820 --> 00:32:37,600 actually know and understand and do this 790 00:32:40,770 --> 00:32:38,830 and so they could talk to their kids 791 00:32:43,620 --> 00:32:40,780 about the science they did at school so 792 00:32:45,990 --> 00:32:43,630 i think that the empower empowering 793 00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:46,000 aspect of the mums in science was just 794 00:32:49,770 --> 00:32:48,490 giving them the confidence and there's 795 00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:49,780 no reason why it can be danced in 796 00:32:55,140 --> 00:32:52,450 science too it's just that the hours the 797 00:32:56,790 --> 00:32:55,150 hours sort of suited the month it could 798 00:32:58,290 --> 00:32:56,800 come with their little really little 799 00:33:00,600 --> 00:32:58,300 kids and so on and then talk to them 800 00:33:03,090 --> 00:33:00,610 their children from school scientists in 801 00:33:04,710 --> 00:33:03,100 schools you know there's a lot of 802 00:33:06,540 --> 00:33:04,720 scientists in schools program around the 803 00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:06,550 world they're not all called that but 804 00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:08,770 the one in australia has been funded by 805 00:33:14,810 --> 00:33:11,410 the Department of Education Employment 806 00:33:18,780 --> 00:33:14,820 or workplace relations and is run by the 807 00:33:22,020 --> 00:33:18,790 CSIRO the education branch and at the 808 00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:22,030 moment they've got something like 1300 809 00:33:27,180 --> 00:33:24,610 partnerships working in schools across 810 00:33:30,690 --> 00:33:27,190 Australia involving something in the 811 00:33:32,370 --> 00:33:30,700 order of 850 schools some of them are 812 00:33:34,740 --> 00:33:32,380 primary some of them are secondary and 813 00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:34,750 the way that partnerships between 814 00:33:41,550 --> 00:33:37,210 scientists and teachers work varies 815 00:33:43,650 --> 00:33:41,560 enormously and really enormously some of 816 00:33:45,510 --> 00:33:43,660 the really successful ones have been 817 00:33:48,090 --> 00:33:45,520 where scientists have come in schools 818 00:33:51,840 --> 00:33:48,100 worked with the teacher to prepare a 819 00:33:53,340 --> 00:33:51,850 program and scientists could lead the 820 00:33:56,340 --> 00:33:53,350 program or the teacher can lead the 821 00:34:02,130 --> 00:33:56,350 program with a scientist backing up as 822 00:34:04,590 --> 00:34:02,140 it were and it's in those programs some 823 00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:04,600 of the outcomes are just very exciting 824 00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:07,690 the caskets so enthusiastic I was 825 00:34:11,250 --> 00:34:08,770 visiting a school 826 00:34:13,020 --> 00:34:11,260 in Perth last year in fact and the 827 00:34:15,930 --> 00:34:13,030 scientists had come into a year one 828 00:34:18,330 --> 00:34:15,940 class well he was a soil scientist and 829 00:34:20,580 --> 00:34:18,340 he'd taken the kids over into the senior 830 00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:20,590 school to the science labs and they were 831 00:34:24,750 --> 00:34:23,050 using microscopes and so the kids are a 832 00:34:26,700 --> 00:34:24,760 few parents helping all these little one 833 00:34:28,380 --> 00:34:26,710 kids were looking at onion skin under 834 00:34:31,909 --> 00:34:28,390 the microscope and then they got some 835 00:34:36,389 --> 00:34:31,919 euglena UK nurse little tiny single-cell 836 00:34:38,370 --> 00:34:36,399 green animals in ponds and I was just 837 00:34:40,770 --> 00:34:38,380 sitting there taking my field notes and 838 00:34:42,870 --> 00:34:40,780 all of a sudden a little boy jumped up 839 00:34:46,110 --> 00:34:42,880 and he ran around the room shouting I 840 00:34:48,149 --> 00:34:46,120 saw one swimming I said I'm sorry it was 841 00:34:49,889 --> 00:34:48,159 just so amazing that because these 842 00:34:52,590 --> 00:34:49,899 little you Glenn you can see them moving 843 00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:52,600 around under the microscope so I think 844 00:34:58,290 --> 00:34:54,810 you know whether this long-term learning 845 00:35:00,360 --> 00:34:58,300 is one thing but and I think the main 846 00:35:02,130 --> 00:35:00,370 thing is that the enthusiasm there are 847 00:35:04,170 --> 00:35:02,140 two things the enthusiasm the kids get 848 00:35:05,970 --> 00:35:04,180 out of it but also the enthusiasm the 849 00:35:07,710 --> 00:35:05,980 scientists to get out of it a lot of 850 00:35:11,580 --> 00:35:07,720 them have said well that's kind of 851 00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:11,590 renewed my passion you know and we've 852 00:35:17,390 --> 00:35:14,530 demonstrated my colleague Christine haut 853 00:35:20,520 --> 00:35:17,400 and I have been evaluating their program 854 00:35:22,530 --> 00:35:20,530 have demonstrated quite conclusively 855 00:35:24,450 --> 00:35:22,540 that there's are not an enormous boost 856 00:35:28,530 --> 00:35:24,460 in confidence in teaching science for 857 00:35:30,180 --> 00:35:28,540 primary teachers who are typically have 858 00:35:32,250 --> 00:35:30,190 not had much science in their own 859 00:35:35,730 --> 00:35:32,260 education and feel quite unconfident 860 00:35:38,190 --> 00:35:35,740 about teaching science at school so I 861 00:35:39,600 --> 00:35:38,200 think part of it is not just learning 862 00:35:42,720 --> 00:35:39,610 whatever it is that the scientists 863 00:35:45,660 --> 00:35:42,730 happens to be an expert in but having 864 00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:45,670 the confidence to realize that you don't 865 00:35:50,670 --> 00:35:47,890 have to know anything but if you can get 866 00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:50,680 the kids to ask their own questions and 867 00:35:55,740 --> 00:35:53,410 investigate them that the teachers can 868 00:35:57,930 --> 00:35:55,750 be learning along with the kids and the 869 00:36:00,360 --> 00:35:57,940 scientists there to provide that expert 870 00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:00,370 advice you'll be that kind of support if 871 00:36:04,470 --> 00:36:02,410 you like with the teachers so it's been 872 00:36:05,730 --> 00:36:04,480 a very successful program is still 873 00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:05,740 continuing on right 874 00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:08,410 still going on you're involved with the 875 00:36:12,150 --> 00:36:10,090 National Action Plan for Australian 876 00:36:13,590 --> 00:36:12,160 schools science education what's going 877 00:36:16,710 --> 00:36:13,600 to be happening to Australia in the 878 00:36:18,870 --> 00:36:16,720 future good point my colleague Dennis 879 00:36:21,530 --> 00:36:18,880 goodrem who was in at the University of 880 00:36:26,340 --> 00:36:21,540 Canberra and I prepared that report in 881 00:36:28,050 --> 00:36:26,350 2007 government what we were trying to 882 00:36:30,930 --> 00:36:28,060 look at future direction to science 883 00:36:33,180 --> 00:36:30,940 education in Australia Australia like 884 00:36:36,570 --> 00:36:33,190 most Western countries is suffering from 885 00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:36,580 an insufficient workforce in science 886 00:36:41,790 --> 00:36:39,330 engineering technology related careers 887 00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:41,800 there's particularly at the lower 888 00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:44,410 secondary level are high level of 889 00:36:49,830 --> 00:36:46,930 disengagement among students in science 890 00:36:53,609 --> 00:36:49,840 at school and why is that what's turning 891 00:36:55,770 --> 00:36:53,619 kids off well I don't think it would be 892 00:36:57,359 --> 00:36:55,780 much of a stretch to say that much of 893 00:36:59,160 --> 00:36:57,369 the science that they learn at that 894 00:37:01,890 --> 00:36:59,170 level is actually quite boring and 895 00:37:03,330 --> 00:37:01,900 irrelevant in their eyes and it doesn't 896 00:37:06,120 --> 00:37:03,340 seem to relate much to what they do 897 00:37:07,410 --> 00:37:06,130 outside of school now I have to 898 00:37:09,900 --> 00:37:07,420 categorize this and say this is not 899 00:37:12,390 --> 00:37:09,910 every classroom no but generally 900 00:37:15,270 --> 00:37:12,400 accepted across and it'll be a lot of 901 00:37:17,700 --> 00:37:15,280 reports in Europe the US about this is 902 00:37:20,490 --> 00:37:17,710 that it's in the science of the 903 00:37:22,980 --> 00:37:20,500 beginning school is seem to be based on 904 00:37:24,990 --> 00:37:22,990 the science disciplines the concepts 905 00:37:27,390 --> 00:37:25,000 which actually very difficult to apply 906 00:37:28,950 --> 00:37:27,400 and out of school situations and there 907 00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:28,960 are a number of reasons for that not the 908 00:37:32,810 --> 00:37:31,450 least of which that science outside of 909 00:37:34,609 --> 00:37:32,820 school is actually quite 910 00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:34,619 interdisciplinary or multidisciplinary 911 00:37:40,230 --> 00:37:37,330 there isn't just one explanation for 912 00:37:42,420 --> 00:37:40,240 things like global warming or salinity 913 00:37:44,190 --> 00:37:42,430 or whatever whereas the sites they learn 914 00:37:47,340 --> 00:37:44,200 at school tends to be physics or 915 00:37:49,859 --> 00:37:47,350 chemistry or biology and it's very hard 916 00:37:52,830 --> 00:37:49,869 to remove you just take Newton's second 917 00:37:54,390 --> 00:37:52,840 law ref echoes na it's very helpful for 918 00:37:56,130 --> 00:37:54,400 solving problems in your physics 919 00:37:58,890 --> 00:37:56,140 textbook but it's actually not terribly 920 00:38:01,650 --> 00:37:58,900 useful to figuring out what happens 921 00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:01,660 outside when you're driving a car and I 922 00:38:06,990 --> 00:38:04,450 always think of a year eight student I 923 00:38:09,120 --> 00:38:07,000 met many years ago when ice collecting 924 00:38:12,150 --> 00:38:09,130 some data at a school and 925 00:38:13,829 --> 00:38:12,160 he asked you know why don't we do more 926 00:38:15,089 --> 00:38:13,839 interesting science at school I said 927 00:38:16,559 --> 00:38:15,099 what do you want to do when you grow up 928 00:38:19,380 --> 00:38:16,569 and he said he wanted to be a racing car 929 00:38:21,150 --> 00:38:19,390 driver I said what's the science topic 930 00:38:23,579 --> 00:38:21,160 you doing at the moment you said forces 931 00:38:26,700 --> 00:38:23,589 an energy I think would sing i lecture 932 00:38:28,680 --> 00:38:26,710 can no connection between the two so 933 00:38:31,470 --> 00:38:28,690 there's got to be a way of linking what 934 00:38:33,240 --> 00:38:31,480 science out there in the real world with 935 00:38:35,609 --> 00:38:33,250 science that happens in school and so 936 00:38:37,349 --> 00:38:35,619 I'm a big advocate of more community 937 00:38:39,059 --> 00:38:37,359 involvement in science which is why I'm 938 00:38:41,880 --> 00:38:39,069 a supporter of the scientist in Schools 939 00:38:44,700 --> 00:38:41,890 program because it seems to be having 940 00:38:46,740 --> 00:38:44,710 those kinds of positive effects what do 941 00:38:49,259 --> 00:38:46,750 you think might happen to Australia's 942 00:38:51,900 --> 00:38:49,269 science education program we have the 943 00:38:59,160 --> 00:38:51,910 national curriculum yes doorstep for 944 00:39:02,670 --> 00:38:59,170 exam yesterday in which you mentioned 945 00:39:04,559 --> 00:39:02,680 earlier one off when we looked at things 946 00:39:06,299 --> 00:39:04,569 concerning students and the science 947 00:39:08,160 --> 00:39:06,309 curriculum things concerning teachers 948 00:39:10,620 --> 00:39:08,170 teacher education suppliant amount of 949 00:39:13,339 --> 00:39:10,630 teaching of teachers and we also looked 950 00:39:16,319 --> 00:39:13,349 at the systems of you know the 951 00:39:18,990 --> 00:39:16,329 jurisdictions the state systems the you 952 00:39:22,049 --> 00:39:19,000 know government religious independent 953 00:39:24,740 --> 00:39:22,059 school systems and the community as a 954 00:39:30,630 --> 00:39:24,750 whole and how they could better interact 955 00:39:33,359 --> 00:39:30,640 one of the things that we felt was not 956 00:39:35,150 --> 00:39:33,369 especially useful was the fact that 957 00:39:38,910 --> 00:39:35,160 every state and territory has its own 958 00:39:41,249 --> 00:39:38,920 education system and they have their own 959 00:39:43,109 --> 00:39:41,259 curriculum although there's a great deal 960 00:39:46,440 --> 00:39:43,119 of commonality if you look between them 961 00:39:48,749 --> 00:39:46,450 and it just didn't seem that everyone 962 00:39:51,680 --> 00:39:48,759 should be reinventing inventing their 963 00:39:53,789 --> 00:39:51,690 own we land and so on and so we had 964 00:39:55,890 --> 00:39:53,799 suggested that a more national approach 965 00:39:58,170 --> 00:39:55,900 to curriculum was appropriate and with 966 00:39:59,910 --> 00:39:58,180 Dennis and another colleague mark 967 00:40:01,920 --> 00:39:59,920 heckling and I had in an earlier report 968 00:40:03,299 --> 00:40:01,930 called the status of quality of teaching 969 00:40:05,759 --> 00:40:03,309 and learning science in Australian 970 00:40:06,910 --> 00:40:05,769 schools which was published in 2001 had 971 00:40:10,089 --> 00:40:06,920 said virtually 972 00:40:11,799 --> 00:40:10,099 thing and so now that we are having a 973 00:40:13,720 --> 00:40:11,809 national curriculum in a number of 974 00:40:19,089 --> 00:40:13,730 subjects and Sciences one of the first 975 00:40:20,410 --> 00:40:19,099 ones off the rank as it were the there 976 00:40:23,950 --> 00:40:20,420 was an extensive period of consultation 977 00:40:28,170 --> 00:40:23,960 and then writing began earlier this year 978 00:40:31,210 --> 00:40:28,180 and there will be my understanding is a 979 00:40:33,970 --> 00:40:31,220 round of communication with stakeholders 980 00:40:36,010 --> 00:40:33,980 during August of some preliminary 981 00:40:40,150 --> 00:40:36,020 documentation sort of scope and sequence 982 00:40:43,510 --> 00:40:40,160 kind of information whether or not it's 983 00:40:46,500 --> 00:40:43,520 accepted across all of the states will 984 00:40:48,730 --> 00:40:46,510 be a political decision not a decision 985 00:40:51,910 --> 00:40:48,740 related specifically to science 986 00:40:54,579 --> 00:40:51,920 education I think so the writing team 987 00:40:56,500 --> 00:40:54,589 and the Advisory Committee for not just 988 00:40:58,120 --> 00:40:56,510 sighs but for all of the subjects that 989 00:40:59,950 --> 00:40:58,130 are currently being prepared have 990 00:41:02,799 --> 00:40:59,960 representatives from each state and 991 00:41:04,510 --> 00:41:02,809 territory that way I guess there's a bit 992 00:41:06,069 --> 00:41:04,520 of ownership because people come from 993 00:41:07,539 --> 00:41:06,079 their own systems knowing what their own 994 00:41:09,430 --> 00:41:07,549 curriculum is like so it'll be 995 00:41:11,829 --> 00:41:09,440 interesting to see what the uptake is 996 00:41:14,859 --> 00:41:11,839 there will certainly be lots of public 997 00:41:16,180 --> 00:41:14,869 consultation the the August my 998 00:41:18,250 --> 00:41:16,190 understanding is that the August 999 00:41:21,130 --> 00:41:18,260 consultations will be generally with 1000 00:41:23,410 --> 00:41:21,140 steak or key stakeholders i'm looking at 1001 00:41:25,450 --> 00:41:23,420 preliminary documentation before there's 1002 00:41:31,859 --> 00:41:25,460 a further iteration and then it goes out 1003 00:41:36,880 --> 00:41:33,910 implementation would not be expected to 1004 00:41:39,259 --> 00:41:36,890 begin before 2011 interesting times that 1005 00:41:40,939 --> 00:41:39,269 we've got ahead of us indeed candide 1006 00:41:42,829 --> 00:41:40,949 so looking forward to more science 1007 00:41:45,199 --> 00:41:42,839 communication in the meantime keep on 1008 00:41:47,479 --> 00:41:45,209 pushing the message yes yeah I think so 1009 00:42:07,429 --> 00:41:47,489 I think so thank you very much professor 1010 00:42:09,139 --> 00:42:07,439 Liang no problem thanks Carly hi this is 1011 00:42:12,199 --> 00:42:09,149 grizzly from the Grizzlies growls 1012 00:42:15,199 --> 00:42:12,209 podcasts at Grizzlies growls calm and 1013 00:42:19,189 --> 00:42:15,209 you're listening to the skeptic so and 1014 00:42:26,269 --> 00:42:19,199 so my but hey don't take my word for it 1015 00:42:44,130 --> 00:42:26,279 oh come on that was funny skeptic don't 1016 00:42:48,840 --> 00:42:46,320 thank you for downloading this episode 1017 00:42:50,670 --> 00:42:48,850 of the skeptic zone and thanks to 1018 00:42:52,890 --> 00:42:50,680 everybody who wrote in offering their 1019 00:42:55,500 --> 00:42:52,900 help in transcribing some of our 1020 00:42:59,250 --> 00:42:55,510 interviews we have enough people for now 1021 00:43:00,930 --> 00:42:59,260 and the project is well underway on next 1022 00:43:04,170 --> 00:43:00,940 week's show will talk to musician and 1023 00:43:07,500 --> 00:43:04,180 podcaster George shrub report on our 1024 00:43:09,720 --> 00:43:07,510 trip to Perth and dr. rachy will be back 1025 00:43:12,420 --> 00:43:09,730 with dr. Rachel reports and of course 1026 00:43:15,000 --> 00:43:12,430 the think tank until then this is 1027 00:43:20,340 --> 00:43:15,010 Richard Saunders signing off from Sydney 1028 00:43:24,630 --> 00:43:20,350 Australia you've been listening to the 1029 00:43:27,900 --> 00:43:24,640 skeptic zone visit our website at wwc a 1030 00:43:31,300 --> 00:43:27,910 petting zoo TV for comments contacts and 1031 00:43:34,630 --> 00:43:31,310 extra video reports